Saturday, January 3, 2009
A word on the ESL final motion
I really think this was a rather poor motion, specifically for a final. I don't quite understand why it was set, and I have heard many similar comments. This is probably one of the reasons why people want an ESL-DCA, just to prevent this kind of motions for finals. Sorry Derek and all the others, but the question really is: "But WHY"?
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32 comments:
I feel that setting this motion for the final is quite insulting to ESL-debaters... Could anyone imagine this motion being run in the Main final? I for one cannot...
In a preliminary round, this motion would have been acceptable. But after the break (best 8 out of 77), one should assume that all remaining debaters are capable of dealing with interesting issues, as in those that actually require some philosophical analysis (without having to semi-squirrel to get to it) or have great relevance in society. Talking about the merits of particular rules within a particular sport does not satisfy either of those conditions.
I don't know, I can see decent arguments from all sides. It's a problem dividing football and a solution already implemented in other sports (rugby). The only thing I can see against it is the likelihood that some debaters will know far more a about it than others, which isn't serious grounds against running it. The real issue I suspect is that many debaters see sport as trivial.
It's a stock deabters trying to be col and having a sports motion debate
It's not even a topical sports motion.
It's boring.
Ah well.
Just don't see how this is a poor motion. It set outs a dilemma of liberalisation over protectionism in a different arena. It's all up for grabs in my mind.
Yeah. but its not that interesting.
There are already rules on home grown players in the European cups and some keagues have rules on non EU (spain) or foreign players(argentina/brazil)
It's not a topical issue really. It's dull if you do or do not know about football.
It's sucha stock debate that it's probably the only football motion that debaters who prep motions actually have a case file on.
It's as dull as hell.
We've ran this many times at evening debates, whenever someone says we should debate something "for the people". I disagree with rob: it isn't insulting, since it's not intended to be - but a more interesting motion would have been better.
It might be interesting to check out this Facebook-group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=54595213017
"THB the ESL final motion at Cork Worlds 2009 is a disgrace"
I think Rob has a point. I don't think this motion would have been debated in the main final. But then again, that claim is based on nothing but my gut-feeling. It's true that it's debatable, but I think the real issue here is: What type of final debates do we want to have?
My answer to that question: A debate that tests the practical intelligence of all speakers(thanks Daniel ;), while entertaining (and sometimes even educating!) the audience.
ps
I wonder if anyone played the 'foot-drain' card during the debate...
pps
Dutch debaters for the win!!
I can't seem to find the results anywhere...seeing as how I'm back in Holland, could anyone tell me who's won the ESL-finals?
A Facebook group? I mean, what?
It's the most topical issue in the most popular spectator sport in the world. If you are prepared to debate about Abkhazia, you should be prepared to debate about football.
I'll go one better: this is more important than debating about breakaway Russian regions that no-one except Russians care about.
...i'll get my coat.
While you're at it, could you tell me the final score :-P?
vuilnisbak: the results will be announced later tonight, at the champions dinner.
I think it is an issue - with the 6+5 proposals and so on. It might not be the best debate in the world but it certainly isn't the worst. My post on that page...
It is:
a) Eminently debatable
b) There are analagous situations (I see it as an affirmative action debate - promoting people artificially for a wider social good. English players to help the English national team)
c) It has societal impact for the millions of people globally who like and watch football or are employed by it. It is a worldwide game. It is not, in any way whatsoever, regionally specific.
d) Many debates debaters do have absolutely no basis in the real world - that is, that policy makers would not even consider some of the debate motions that we see at IVs.
e) There is absolutely no evidence, unless you have some (?), that this wouldn't come in a WUDC ENL Final?
f) Lots of debates rely on specialist knowledge. If I, as a non-lawyer, come up against lawyers in an international law debate...
Does this mean that all sports debates are off limits? Or only for finals? Surely the best debaters should be able to debate difficult motions - it seems odd, to me at least that we are talking about post-break motions. Surely, if this is ok for pre-break debates where everyone, including the bottom four teams on the tab has to debate it, it is fine for post-break rounds?
Or am I missing something obvious - I may well be, as it happens, but there we are.
It may be boring, but it isn't insulting.
Calling any motion boring is ridiculous because it can only be a subjective viewpoint. See, for example, any flat tax motion: I'm sure as many people are repelled as entranced by those ones.
Again, I think there is a general distaste for sporting motions because so many debaters know so little about them but sport, obviously, plays a strange and enormous role in society and thus must be considered as eminent among any possible topics. I suspect that such dislike in general is masquerading as a critique of this motion in particular while also fueling the implied discrimination in such comments as 'this would never have been the motion in the main debate'.
Finally, stock debating comeback, it's the same motion for everyone, fairly common and arguable, so certainly isn't a disgrace.
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Хорошая статья. Действительно было интересно почитать. Не часто такое и встречается та.Наверное стоит подписаться на ваше RSS
ок , не слышал такого в киеве
здорово ) важно
недурно , автор прав не спорить
здорово : торч
ценно :-) приду еще раз но поздно, секс нарисовался )
хорошо :-) ну наконец то разродились, я за это время в магазин успел збегать, и не раз!
недурно :-) блин, магазин перед носом закрылся, сигареты не купил, теперь здесь...
клас , неплохо
хорошо ) наконец-то!
здорово : кайф
хорошо : забегу на медне
клас :-) наконец-то!
здорово ) в магазин сбегаю и вернусь сюда
ценно - а сексом это не попахивает?
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